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#1 spoon

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 07:14 PM

I know this topic have been discuss before, and i know all the precautions, good and bad of making this decision. However my query is mostly on the finance part. Ultimately it will be discuss with the said boy, but i dont want to make unreasonable proposal too.

I will be travelling to another country, not thailand, with a friend, and there is a high chance that he will have to cut the trip short, thus leaving me alone in the country for at least 4 days alone but also gives me a good opportunity to invite one of the boy to be with me in the country. Ive checked thaivisa and thai nationals doesnt need to apply visa, and i know that the boy have travelled outside before, from his chatting with me and some travel pictures he shares with me before.

Now, for those who have done it before, what is usually the expectation in terms of finance? I take it ill be covering the flight tickets and transportation door to door, and daily tips. On the daily tips, should i pay their normal long time fee plus off fee daily? How about the food? Shopping etc? Will it be all inclusive? I am pretty sure i will need to draw some agreement but im clueless to what is expected lol

Its just an idea that might not even pan out, but i am tempted to make a proposal to the boy and see if he want to make the travel or not, if he doesnt want to, no harm done hehe

#2 DivineMadman

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 08:48 PM

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I know this topic have been discuss before, and i know all the precautions, good and bad of making this decision. However my query is mostly on the finance part. Ultimately it will be discuss with the said boy, but i dont want to make unreasonable proposal too.

I will be travelling to another country, not thailand, with a friend, and there is a high chance that he will have to cut the trip short, thus leaving me alone in the country for at least 4 days alone but also gives me a good opportunity to invite one of the boy to be with me in the country. Ive checked thaivisa and thai nationals doesnt need to apply visa, and i know that the boy have travelled outside before, from his chatting with me and some travel pictures he shares with me before.

Now, for those who have done it before, what is usually the expectation in terms of finance? I take it ill be covering the flight tickets and transportation door to door, and daily tips. On the daily tips, should i pay their normal long time fee plus off fee daily? How about the food? Shopping etc? Will it be all inclusive? I am pretty sure i will need to draw some agreement but im clueless to what is expected lol

Its just an idea that might not even pan out, but i am tempted to make a proposal to the boy and see if he want to make the travel or not, if he doesnt want to, no harm done hehe

Here's what I do (and if I say something obvious I'm not trying to be condescending, just trying to be complete):

 

Door-to-Door.  As you note, yes, pay airfare.  Personally I wouldn't worry about the taxi or anything more "door-to-door".  [BTW - I would never give the money to the lucky guy to buy the ticket.  I buy the ticket for my companion so it can't be turned in for cash.  You do have to be careful that he doesn't need to present the credit card at check-in if you're not going to be with him.  I think Air Asia easily accommodates buying a ticket for a third party at the time of purchase.  Otherwise a travel agent can easily arrange it.]  

 

Off-fee.  Yes you are responsible for the off fee, but I would still make sure to ask him.  In my experience the guys love the idea of saving a favored customer some money, so if they have time-off available maybe, just maybe, they might be able to take time off from the bar and not have to pay the off-fee (or in their case, the "not showing up for work" fee).  But as things are ramping up to high season don't count on it.

 

Daily Fee.  Here's where others may have different experiences.  I don't particularly do regular "long-times," so for a guy I would be traveling with there's just the usual 2,000 per off.  [Obviously BKK prices]  When I make my proposal to the guy, I just take that 2,000 number and multiply it by the total number of days (counting travel days) and tell them that big total number I will pay.   4 day total trip I would just say I will pay 8,000 (plus money for bar fine).  I've never had anyone counter back saying, no it should be long-term blah blah blah.  I can absolutely understand a guy who would say, "no you should pay me for long-term."  But so far it has never happened to me.  Of course he will be happier if you offer him long-term rate, particularly if that 's the regular number you pay him.  I don't have a history with a guy of paying that so I think they're just used to the usual amount I pay.  I know that there are customers who say you shouldn't pay the full amount because the guy might not get off'd every day, etc."  If saving that money is essential to you, then bargain away.  It might have negative effect, it might not.   (Of course, if he's any good he might get off'd those days, and there's clearly an opportunity cost for him.)  For me I would never consider asking someone to take less than short-term rate for 24 hours of service as a travel companion.  But I am lucky, so far guys have been very happy to travel with me.

 

Food and Beverages; Incidentals.  Yes you are responsible for food and drinks.  But very very very often the guy I have been with has bought the occasional beverage or snack for us both, or paid  taxi fare (sometimes with spending money I've given him - but also even if I haven't given spending money).  Tourist fees such as museum or park admission fees, rides, etc., all the customer's responsibility.

 

Shopping.  I don't do "shopping" for the guys I'm with (but sometimes I give them some extra spending money, elaborated on below).  To be honest there was one exception to the no-shopping rule.  I was traveling with someone for a couple of week in VN and 3/4 of the way through his family was constantly pestering him and he had to send every Dong home to pay for his brother's school fees.  I could tell he was a little crest-fallen as he transferred the money -- all that time with a customer and no money to show for it -- so I took him shopping to buy sneakers and jeans.  And he was truly grateful and has remained grateful to this day.  But that's the exception.  Because of the rumor mill that some customers like to buy the guys stuff, I let anyone I am with know very clearly that I don't do shopping, and I've never had a problem with it.   But if you want to take your guy shopping, by all means do!

 

Pocket Money.  I don't do shopping but on  a longer trip I give my companion a little money in the local currency and tell him it's so he can buy something for himself or pay for drinks or dinner sometime.  More than once the guys have returned the money to me at the end of the trip.

 

SIM Card.  I get a local SIM for myself and I also get one for my companion, so he can stay in touch with friends and family and post those prized pictures on Facebook.   For him, just internet/no calling.   I think giving him the SIM card is essential.

 

General Considerations.  This not financial, which is what you are asking about, so feel free to skip!

 

Make clear your expectations on sex.  If you have the stamina of Numazu, ggobkk or Vinapu, then you should let the guy know ahead of time it's sex a few times a day.  I'm more of a once-a-day guy, with the occasional rest day, so not so much an issue.  

 

Communication is really your responsibility.  (Of course we could say your companion is an equal partner and equally responsible, but the truth is, he's not.)

 

I always build in a little "alone time" every day.  Truth is I do this for myself, but all that togetherness might be difficult for him too.

 

I've travelled with guys who in their ordinary lives just don't go to sleep until 5-6:00 am regardless of whether they got home at 1:30 am or not.  I let them know they will be on "my" schedule, so we can do the touristy stuff, but I've come to accept and accommodate that they are suffering the equivalent of jet lag.  So late breakfasts.  Always an opportunity for them to get a real nap, not just "afternoon delight" for me.  With any luck your guy won't be like this, but I seem to attract the later nighters even though I'm a morning person.  

 

Your guy might have lots of experience traveling, and he might not.  I always try to be a bit sensitive to the idea that things I take for granted he might not know, so I usually try to lead by example.  I've done several trips with guys where it's been their first time and there's a lot for them to absorb.

 

When guys travel with me there is always a lot of exploration, sightseeing, touristy stuff, even walking around.  Of course this makes them absolutely miserable.  One day out in the sun will darken their skin and it will take them many weeks and much toxic skin creams to get them back to the light skin they need for work.   I try to be sensitive to this.  I always bring good strong sunscreen, the good kind that doesn't cause acne.  Or I give my travel umbrella to my companion to use as a parasol.  At an historic site I may give them the chance to sit in the shade while I keep exploring -- of course only after I've taken pictures of them that they can post on Facebook to show their friends...  As much as I may like their skin darker, for them it's about business and their own sense of vanity, both of which I respect.  

 

Dining almost always turns out to be the most stressful part of every day every trip, and over the years I've learned to make much more of an effort to find places to eat where my companion can be happy.  This can mean finding a Thai restaurant in Ubud, Bali (for example),  or just making sure the menu has pictures.  (Of course if my companion is from the particular country I'm visiting this is a bit easier, but still I wouldn't insist on going to restaurants that only serve food that I am used to if my companion isn't used to it as well.)  I might crave a bagel or pastry for breakfast in Vientiane, but that's not "breakfast" for my companion, and I understand that.  Every day eating only farang food will make him unhappy.  This also of course means being attentive enough to understand that my companion may say "up to you" when he means "I really want food I'm used to [or whatever], but you're the boss."



#3 vinapu

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 08:59 PM

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Getting him there for Thailand and return trip  and off fee  for time he will be removed from bar / massage  is on you , that's sure thing.

 

As for food, when you are dining and / or drinking together you will cover it. It may be time when you are busy and boy will be left alone then  you should give him some reasonable stipend to cover meal and drink during that time. Or as an alternative you can give him daily stipend for his daytime costs  and then it's up to him if he prefers to spend it or starve and save money.

 

With shopping trips  be careful what expectations are and be very clear what you cover and what you don't.

 

My preferred course of action will be  setting firm monetary  or item limit i.e. boy pays for his items or you pay but up to determined amount or you buy him a jeans/ shoes / shirt , whatever   but just that item. Otherwise you may be drained.

 

Boy may be of independent mind and may want to pay his way  dining or shopping, in such a case I'd find way of reasonable reimbursement, like parting bonus at end of trip / don't even mention  an idea beforehand /.

 

as for tip by every mean negotiate with him but since he will be spending most of day and whole night with you , long time tip plus all expenses above  seems fair. After all you taking from him his earning potential , on another hand you give him vacations.

 

Make sure his travel documents / passport or whatever he may require / are up to date.  

 

He may be coming from different culture than your own and speaks different language so be careful with your promises. If you say ' perhaps tomorrow we will go shopping"  he  may hear ' for sure tomorrow we will go shopping".

 

as a template to consider you may use my adventures, all already described in my reports here :

 

in 2015 I took Pattaya boy with me to Bangkok / his idea /. He suggested I will be free to take other boys so I even rented cheap but decent room for him in Sunflower Place near Nantra Silom . His daily stipend was 1000 and for nights we spent together he was to receive and additional 3000, we agreed that at least 2 out of 5 nights will be his, it turned even better so he did not spent much time in his room, LOL

 

Two shopping trips were with firm limits and in first case he did not even reach it , in second  he overspent a bit but it was reasonable.

Few times I left him alone he asked me for money for steak , white wine or massage which I gave him / one should see his body ! / but I was of impression he did not spent it as intended, pocketing it instead.

 

Only thing out of blue was suggestion at end of trip I gave him additional good bye tip-   this was that second shopping trip.

 

I was a bit upset with that  so we parted on a bit sour note but in retrospect it was very good idea , that trip , not only he kept patiently his side of bargain but endearingly he suggested I pay him all his tips at end of trip so he can save money, smart as it gave him clear incentive to ask for  food , etc money as we went about. But I like smart ideas , even if they are at my expense.

 

 

Second case was in reverse , Bangkok boy taken for 2 nights to Pattaya , again his idea as well as proposal that he doesn't want any money , only to cover his off fee from the bar. Again he kept his side of bargain and his shopping ideas were very modest like 100 baht underwear or 200 baht jar of some fish preserve. Upon return he was clearly hesitant to take offered 7000 baht tip for that time but somehow I forced it upon him. 

 

Apologies for lengthy response but I got a call from work this morning not to show up today because power outage so have time to fill with pleasant tasks.

 

Edit : I just noticed that DivineMadman also responded above at the same time so apologies if I repeated some of his ideas as I did not have a chance to read his post before posting mine.



#4 zoomy02

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 09:13 PM

Once I paid the man 4,000 baht a day while away. The other times I negotiated a package price which was lower. 



#5 spoon

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 09:23 PM

Wow, i didnt expect such elaborate responses from both of you, our forum veterans indeed surpasssed my expectations. Indeed my main concern is the financial, i want to first make a proposal that are both enticing but not too over the top too lol. It will also helped me in preparing how much money i should bring. Ive never thought about skin getting darker, that's definitely will be in the book as well. Food might be of less concern for me since i am not a picky eater, and ive seen some of his posts in his social media of the variety of food he ate too. Alone time discussion is also in my mind as well, this will be another thing that will be discussed as well.

I think both of you have covered a lot of grounds already. Now all i need is to make sure my friend is indeed has to cut short the trip and bought his flight ticket before i engage with the boy with my proposal. I dont want to give false hope and then have to cancel it later.

#6 vinapu

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 11:25 PM

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Dining almost always turns out to be the most stressful part of every day every trip,

I learned that long time ago when doing family travels and ever since I don't have any problems of telling my travelling companion , whoever he is / relative , co-worker, friend, Thai boy / that travelling together doesn't mean eating together.

 

I understand boys may hate farang food and I'd make every effort to accommodate them  by finding them suitable place to eat but if there's nothing I fancy I wold leave them alone to  eat , leave them money to pay for it and find other place for myself.

 

If they find it rude , so be it but vacation time for me is too precious to spent it in the loo or even worse to fight an allergy / I'm allergic to certain sea foods and not taking any chances/.

 

On another hand if I'm with boy I make sure I ask him very often if he is hungry or thirsty and don't mind if we need to make food stop even when I'm not in need, I want him to be happy and hungry men whatever age are happy not.



#7 Scooby

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 12:33 AM

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I have to chime in. The two elaborate and complete responses to Spoon blew me away.  I can't imagine anywhere else you could get such a complete and honest response about something so personal to the person who is considering such a new adventure.

 

My thanks to Divine Madman and Vinapu. Just clicking Like This did not seem enough!



#8 reader

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 12:54 AM

 

My thanks to Divine Madman and Vinapu. Just clicking Like This did not seem enough!

 

+1

 

Please consider adding a new forum dedicated to FAQ about travel  (or something akin to that) that only moderator could post in.

 

If Scooby deems a post made in another forum worthy of essentially being pinned, he could move it (or link to it) in dedicated forum for quick reference.

 

Members could still add replies in regular forums. 

 

Without something like this, great posts like above get forgotten over time. It would serve as a real service to both new and veteran members alike.



#9 z909

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 02:34 AM

Agreed.    Many thanks to DivineMadman & Vinapu for such detailed responses.

 

Also, as this is on a topic that has surprisingly not been discussed so much here before, the value of the responses is increased significantly.

 

I have never taken a boy traveling, but have considered it and the most likely scenario would be when I'm traveling to somewhere where it's not as easy to find willing lads on a regular basis.  For example, in the smaller towns in Thailand, Laos, Burma etc. 
 

Since hotel safes are much less common in some such places, how do/would you handle the security issues ?

 

On a trip with a boy, the obvious risks are:

1 Hotels with no safe

2  He's there all the time, it's much more difficult to be discrete & only put the stuff in the safe when he's in the bathroom.

 

With a few electronic devices and 10,000 baht in cash, the safe is where I prefer to keep it.



#10 ggobkk

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 04:09 AM

Most excellent and thorough replies. Thanks.

My learning from experience is similar to DivineMadman’s details with the difference that I compensate on long term basis. I give companion some walking around money, maybe some shopping - once had to buy a pair of bathing trunks for him to go to the beach.

Oh, DivineMadman, the stamina reference...I’m flattered to be listed with the real champs but need lots of recuperation. LOL.

#11 vinapu

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 04:23 AM

...... the person who is considering such a new adventure.

 

 

'adventure" to describe travelling with somebody we don't know or at least we did not travel with previously is very appropriate word.

 

Travel, even in comfort ,  is somewhat testing and sometimes even relatives and close friends  are showing side we did not know before, for both good and bad. It's why I advise  to set limits and conditions carefully and lower expectations for the sake of world peace.

 

Even something relatively trivial like waking hours in DivineMadman's example may be source of tension , on another hand having 24 hour  / minus some free time for both of course / company of somebody we like and can cling to at almost any time is heavenly experience. 



#12 vinapu

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 05:45 AM

 

 

  I let them know they will be on "my" schedule, so we can do the touristy stuff, 

I'd be careful to assess if boy is really interested in all my sightseeing and if he is not , better not to drag him along as apart from food issues it may be another reason for unhappy face.

 

I took my Pattaya boy to Muang Boran / Ancient City / in Samut Prakhan giving him previously clear choice of  going or not, he decided to go but after perhaps 2 hours ( site is vast and can consume good part of day ) he become clearly bored and disinterested to a point I was considering sending him home with taxi, which was handy because one we grabbed from street was driving us around the site as well. For the sake of world peace and due to debilitating heat I gave up and we returned to the hotel.

 

Day or two later he expressed an interest with going with me ,  xiluzer and his friend  to Grand Palace and this time I was firm. When he had enough I just told him I will see him in 2 hrs in a restaurant I pointed to on the site, gave him some feeding money and proceeded to survey the rest of compound  alone.

 

Bangkok boy in Pattaya , when we went to Ko Larn thought I'm kidding when I told him I want to climb the hill with Buddha foot but again I did not show any mercy leaving him waiting for me in a shade by the temple below with 100 baht for drinks and went my way.

 

If Spoon's country in question is Cambodia and he would be inclined to , say,  walk around the walls of Angkor Thom  with boy I'd made sure his  driver  is following them in a distance or even better waiting at every next gate ( there are only  5  in full circle )

 

 

 

I have never taken a boy traveling, but have considered it and the most likely scenario would be when I'm traveling to somewhere where it's not as easy to find willing lads on a regular basis.  For example, in the smaller towns in Thailand, Laos, Burma etc. 
 

Since hotel safes are much less common in some such places, how do/would you handle the security issues ?

 

On a trip with a boy, the obvious risks are:

1 Hotels with no safe

2  He's there all the time, it's much more difficult to be discrete & only put the stuff in the safe when he's in the bathroom.

 

With a few electronic devices and 10,000 baht in cash, the safe is where I prefer to keep it.

very valid question and one of those cases of ' however you turn , your ass is always behind" . 

 

We don't want to hurt boy's feeling by showing we lock all in sight  but like to keep our possessions safe and intact as well.

 

This is where trust in human decency and belief in humanity  comes handy and one needs to take a plunge. 

 

In my case of Pattaya boy  it was tested right away,  safe in my room at  Nantra did not work. I just play along, keeping money where it was / some in my  garments , rest in my luggage / and not a penny was missing even if apart from him I had 2 other boys there on different nights. 

 

My advice will be to travel with boy at least known from previous engagement, hopefully more than one ( I offed both my travelling boys long time more than once before I took them with me ) and boy should be from massage or bar so at least there's some place we can go and complain, not that it helps.

And do not lead him into temptation by placing stack of 1000 baht notes in front of TV although I think showing a bit of trust boosts boy's morale big time. 

 

From time to time I give agreed tip  in advance or show him few notes under the Hong Thong bottle saying  ' this is your tip for the morning' and those antics never were detrimental to a service performed.

 

To test boy's reliability if in doubt I use 'change test" by sending him to 7/11 to buy toothbrush or 2 beers with 100 baht note. If upon return he hands change promptly I know I'm in good hands. If he doesn't , just in case,  I sent him to the shower and in meantime remove some money from my pockets to the safe. Another off will be doubtful and breakfast invitation is  rather out of question. 



#13 spoon

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 07:29 AM

I have to chime in. The two elaborate and complete responses to Spoon blew me away. I can't imagine anywhere else you could get such a complete and honest response about something so personal to the person who is considering such a new adventure.

My thanks to Divine Madman and Vinapu. Just clicking Like This did not seem enough!


I would like to echo again my appreciation to both of them! Wish i can like these posts multiple time daily haha. Its an in depth guide worthy of an article in many travel gay magazines :)

#14 vinapu

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 07:50 AM

I would like to echo again my appreciation to both of them! Wish i can like these posts multiple time daily haha. Its an in depth guide worthy of an article in many travel gay magazines :)

good luck with your adventure, if you can arrange that way, go for it but first make sure boy in question is interested in



#15 traveller123

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 09:39 AM

Good luck Spoon.

Just be aware of one danger - I took a guy from Hua Hin for four nights in Pattaya (for the British members taking coals to Newcastle springs to mind) with initially no inclination it would be for longer. Now we have been together ten years in January and for the last five years we have been living in Thailand

 

(And I wouldn't change it, he has turned out to be the most wonderful guy imaginable)



#16 spoon

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 08:40 PM

Good luck Spoon.
Just be aware of one danger - I took a guy from Hua Hin for four nights in Pattaya (for the British members taking coals to Newcastle springs to mind) with initially no inclination it would be for longer. Now we have been together ten years in January and for the last five years we have been living in Thailand

(And I wouldn't change it, he has turned out to be the most wonderful guy imaginable)


Thanks! I am having cold feet as well lol not because of what u say though. Itll be my first time travelling with a boy if it does happens. Still waiting for my friend to buy his ticket before i make my move though.

#17 Scooby

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 08:58 PM

In case anyone misses it. We have a new Forum Gay Thailand Travel inspired by the responses to Spoon about traveling with a GoGo Boy from Vinapu and Divine Madman.   If anyone things there is a better name for this Forum. Let me know.

 

There may be a better name but at least this is a start.



#18 paborn

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 12:28 AM

What is the difference between Gay Thailand and Gay Thailand Travel? 



#19 Scooby

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 01:49 AM

Go back to yesterday and read the post by Reader.  He suggested and others agree there should be a place as a separate Forum where that type of information won't be lost as more and more posts are made in the Main Forum.

 

The problem is the name may not be quite right. I think the goal is to save this kind of specialized responses of information and for it to be easy to find .  

 

We can rename it as the forum with specialized info on going on trips with boys or make it slightly broader . What we don't want is to be a garbage dump for too many things .

 

Send pm's to me and I'll consider it.  Possibly lock the Forum and then if enough members feel a thread is worth saving send me a pm. And we'll go from there.

 

Or we can just change the name to traveling with Boys and only allow those posts.

 

HELP!



#20 z909

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 02:53 AM

PM sent.  

A sub forum with concentrated information & advice, without duplication of topics might be a winner.   How to implement is the tricky part.






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